7 Replies to “kamppi.nokia.mobi”

  1. Hi

    I would just like to congratulate you and Nokia on the Kamppi trial for indoor wayfinding.

    I believe the day will dawn when this will be common in buildings, especially shopping malls. I only wish that I could experience using it in Kamppi.

    I have had a long interest in indoor wayfinding and have built quite a few prototypes of an indoor wayfinding tool for shopping malls and other buildings.

    I was originally aiming for an app to run on the mobile but after coming up against all the issues around Symbian signing and .sis files or .cab files or BREW files I am of the opinion that in an app for mass-release it is best to launch it as a mobi site.

    My ideas are still advancing in great big leaps and I already have a few workable prototypes but I am now experimenting with adding other more advanced features and know that I will be able to produce something workable in this regard.

    Hence I am watching the Kamppi trials with great interest.

    My only sad point is that as a lone developer I do not have the resources or the knowledge to add automatic position-finding to my app. Furthermore Flash is only a hobby so I have a daytime job and work on my app in my spare time.

    I cannot find any public comments on the Kamppi trials – even on the relevent websites there are very few comments. How has the reaction been so far ?? Would love to hear !

    Thanks and good luck for the future.


    1. Hi Paul, thanks for dropping by here. We’ve had a bit of press at the time of the press releases a few months ago. This resulted in some traffic of course and we considering the scale of the system and the limited marketing resources, this trial has been quite successful. I know Christian Prehofer and his team in Helsinki are still pushing the technology and concepts and they are working on more. I suggest you contact him if you want more details.

      As for mobile applications and websites. It’s easy to get distracted by specific technologies. In the end it’s a tradeoff between how many users can I afford to ignore and how cool do I want my application to be. A wap site may not be that cool but it runs on a lot of phones. The recent (past 2-3 years) trend of more full featured browsers allows you to do more and target a quite wide range of phones. With relative easy you should be able to target most newer Nokia phones, Android & iphones, misc phones with webkit or recent opera browsers, etc. Most vendors seem to have been convinced that html 3.2 doesn’t quite cut it anymore.

      I wouldn’t go for a .mobi domain name. I don’t believe many users know what it is and .com works just as well.

  2. Hi Jilles

    Thanks for the feedback and for the tip about .mobi vs .com – will talk to my web designer on this point.

    Indoor wayfinding via mobile is such an interesting field. I still have to get my app on trial though. Having said that my 12 year-old son already used a previous prototype to find the toy store in the mall at christmas – so it cant be that bad. Right now Im experimenting with route-finder code.

    Thanks again.


  3. Hi Jilles

    Was just wondering whats the outcome of the Kamppi experiment? The site seems to have dissapeared a few months ago and now theres no news of any results?

    Also just to report back on my app. I entered it in the Nokia Calling All Innovators Africa Competition and came 10th overall.

    Now heres the thing which I am trying to understand. Everyone who has seen my app has raved about its usefulness and yet when I start investigating the marketing position of the mall someone tells me that most malls wont be prepared to pay too much for such an app because they dont see benefit in it for them.

    I mean there are malls here who actually pay to have a mall map printed but the map is so tiny its useless to everyone yet they pay for it. They may as well pour the money down the toilet in this case.

    So it would seem that we developers can spend as much time and money as we have making the most incredible indoor wayfinding tool but at the end of the day its a question of what the mall is prepared to pay for it.

    So for now I am keeping my app simple without too many features and am thinking of targeting it at the shopper as a webite download rather than at the mall.

    Of course theres also the problem of delivering it to as many mobile phone makes as possible. Here a mobi-based app would help except if its a Flash Lite app in which case the mobile viewing the mobi site has to have the Flash player onboard.

    Dont think that I sound pessimistic because I believe very much in my concept and in my app.



  4. Hi again Paul,

    The kamppi experiment has ended. There is still some ongoing work but I’m not involved with that anymore. Contact James Reilly (james.reilly AT nokia.com) directly if you are interested in getting an update. There might be a paper in the works on this, but not sure on this.

    Regarding your application, congratulation! I believe the value of such applications to shops and malls is proportional to the number of people they can reach through it. Out of the box that is pretty much nobody because you have no users. That’s a chicken egg type problem of course but it is the core reason why it is hard.

  5. Hi Jilles

    I think you are right as far as the value of such an app is to the mall. The mall sees value in having marketing on the app.

    However I believe that there is much more value in the map as far as the shoppers are concerned provided the app can achieve its intended purpose of making mall navigation EASY and FUN ! No more getting lost in the mall !

    Believe me I do see the marketing potential of it but if the mall is only interested in what they can get from it then I am not interested in working with them. I want it to be of value to the shopper.

    I am still re-designing the app which came 10th in the competition. I have added full “block-diagram” maps of each level together with zoom and pan features. I have also added cartoon characters just to make it FUN.

    I realise that too many buttons to press will scare some people off so it has a very simple navigation mode plus a more advanced navigation mode for the more adventurous types.

    I recently spent 2 days walking the mall with pen and paper in hand to verify store names and coordinates because the information on the malls website was hopelessly inaccurate.

    The mall no longer prints maps since they installed digital touch screens with maps displayed. Unfortunately these touchscreen maps are also inacurate and not at all helpful to the user. So heres a clear example of the mall believing there is value in the map (because of the advertising it carries) meanwhile when you ask users of the touchscreen map they tell you the map doesnt help them at all so whats the value to the shoppers ?. NONE !!

    I hope to test my next prototype soon and then post it on a website and let the people decide if it is usefull or not.

    I am prepared to admit that I may have the formula all wrong. The proof will be in the eating so to speak.

    This mall is the biggest and most confusing in my country so if I can crack this mall then the others will be easy.



    1. Hi Jilles

      Hope that you are still out there and that you are well.

      Just wanted to update you on my experiments in indoor navigation.

      I have built an app for Nokia N8, C7 and E7 devices which carries a map of the Mall of America in Bloomingdale Minnesota. This is a 4-level mall having 525+ stores. My app offers turn-by-turn directions along the shortest route and gives distances to travel along each leg of the journey.

      I built the app from my home in South Africa and so have not visited the mall and cannot visit for testing. I have tried to get someone who uses the mall to test but so far no luck.

      I am however confident that it will function with some degree of accuracy.

      I am happy that I have mastered the navigation code. Obviously I do not have access to Nokia’s indoor location technology but I would dearly love to add this in.

      I am now going to build a similar app for a local mall (4-levels and 320 stores). After handling the MoA this should be an easy task. To this app I want to add voice aided navigation. This also should not be an issue.

      Having said all that, and having mastered the navigation aspect, I do believe that I now need to build into the app features which will enable shoppers to interact with the mall environment. Allow them to recieve marketing and vouchers and coupons and to purchase tickets etc. This will now be the REAL challenge. I have a number of ideas and will now experiment with these.



Leave a Reply